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We all know that television and movies simply don’t have enough time to give us what REALLY happens in Law Enforcement circles, in particular, Crisis Negotiation but – what IS Hollywood giving us when it comes to Crisis Negotiation and understanding Mental Health?
The answer is reasonably horrifying.
There are so many details, scenarios, perspectives and processes that have to be shoved into a 43-minute package, and it’s time to find out what Hollywood is offering us from Crisis Negotiator Trainer, Pat Doering, The Crisis Cop and Crisis Negotiator and Clinical Psychologist Dr. Morgan Krumeich.
It’s time for a Perspective Review of Criminal Minds, Season 1, Episode 9 – “Derailed” via WhatCopsWatch on The 2GuysTalking Podcast Network.
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Housekeeping
— The Crisis Cop Podcast: Check it Out! https://CrisisCop.Com
— Calling All Future Role Players! Got a knack for acting and thinking on your feet? Train the future of Law Enforcement via Crisis Negotiation and Tell Us You’re Interested Today! https://BlueBaggersProject.Com
— WhatCopsWatch/2GuysTalking is Now an Official USCCA Business Partner!
— Free Field Training: Inside this episode we welcome Officer Tommy Mottl from Free Field Training on YouTube (and now, from The Free Field Training Podcast effort) to share his perspective on – literally – the area that he has intimate knowledge about in the South Chicagoland area…
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Timestamps for This Episode:
00:00 “Crisis Negotiation Training Insights”
14:34 FBI Training Scenarios Experience
23:55 “Power of Great Writing”
32:47 “Security Guard’s Fatal Moment”
50:43 “Phenomenal Film on Schizophrenia”
53:31 “Negotiation and Priest Protocol”
01:08:31 “Realistic Brainstorming in Negotiations”
01:20:35 “Hostage Rescue Tactical Insights”
01:23:10 “Critical Hostage Communication Strategy”
01:40:37 Ron Howard’s Passionate Direction
01:48:45 Situational Awareness and Safety
01:56:56 “Revenge and Obsession Spiral”
02:13:01 “Crisis, Counselors, and Modern Solutions”
02:17:57 “Surviving Trauma and Loss”
02:31:16 “Entertainment’s Unsteady Landscape”
02:36:10 WhatCops Watch: Next Episode
Questions from This Episode:
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- How accurately do you think Criminal Minds portrayed crisis negotiation and mental health issues in this episode, based on the insights shared byPat Doering, Mike Wilkerson and Dr. Morgan Krumeich
- What impact does the lack of realistic negotiation strategy in the TV episode have on viewers’ understanding of real-life crisis response?
- Pat Doering and Mike Wilkerson share personal experiences with real-life hostage scenarios and negotiations. What stood out to you most in their comparisons between Hollywood and reality?
- The episode discusses the importance of not “playing into” a subject’s delusions during negotiation. Why might affirming a delusional belief be risky, and what are alternative approaches?
- The team talks about the integration of mental health professionals into law enforcement responses. What are the potential challenges and benefits discussed concerning this collaboration?
- Both hosts and Dr. Morgan mention the rise in mental health-related crisis calls. How do you think police departments can best equip themselves to handle these situations?
- The episode criticizes the decision to send an additional “hostage” (Spencer) into the crisis situation as unrealistic and dangerous. Why is this problematic from a tactical and negotiation standpoint?
- With so much of the episode’s critique revolving around writing choices for suspense versus realism, do you think it’s possible for TV dramas to balance excitement and accuracy? Why or why not?
- The discussion touched on situational awareness, both in professional and personal life. How might increased public education on situational awareness benefit everyday safety?
- After watching this episode and listening to the breakdown, do you think shows like Criminal Minds help or hurt public perception of law enforcement, negotiation, and mental health crises? Why?
Links from this Episode:
- Crisis Cop Podcast & Related Sites:
- Crisis Cop Podcast: https://crisiscop.com
- Crisis Cop Podcast Library: https://crisiscoppodcast.com
- Role Player & Crisis Negotiation Training:
- Blue Baggers Project – Professional role players for crisis negotiation training: https://bluebaggersproject.com
- Criminal Minds Viewing:
- Watch Criminal Minds on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/criminal-minds-518564c2-380b-4f4e-acc1-7c75a59c8ad9
- Paramount Plus: https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/criminal-minds/
- Referenced Books & Authors:
- “Mindhunter” by John Douglas: https://www.amazon.com/Mindhunter-Inside-Elite-Criminal-Unit/dp/0671023850
- “Whoever Fights Monsters” by Robert Ressler: https://www.amazon.com/Whoever-Fights-Monsters-Serial-Killers/dp/0312059412
- “Dark Dreams” by Roy Hazelwood: https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Dreams-Legendary-Crimes-Investigator/dp/0312301439
- Real-Life Case References & Negotiation:
- The Negotiator movie and real story review: https://twoguystalking.com/thenegotiator
- “Stalling for Time” by Gary Noesner (FBI Negotiator): https://www.amazon.com/Stalling-Time-Hostage-Negotiator-ebook/dp/B003F3PKTU/
- National Tactical Officers Association: https://www.ntoa.org/
- Mental Health & Psychology Resources:
- National Alliance on Mental Illness: https://www.nami.org/Home
- Information about Tardive Dyskinesia: https://www.ninds.nih.gov/health-information/disorders/tardive-dyskinesia
- Referenced TV Shows & Films:
- Flashpoint (negotiation-focused show): https://www.amazon.com/Flashpoint-Season-1/dp/B002EIQB4E
- The Wire (cop drama): https://www.hbo.com/the-wire
- True Blood: https://www.hbo.com/true-blood
- Beautiful Mind (film): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268978/
- Silence of the Lambs (film): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102926/
- Podcast & Voice Broadcasting Services:
- EditorCore, for podcast editing: https://editorcore.com
- VoiceFarmers, for voice services: https://voicefarmers.com
- Show Contact & Feedback:
- Contact WhatCopsWatch.com: https://whatcopswatch.com/contact
Calls to the Audience Inside this Episode:
— What do YOU think of storytelling that we are given nowadays inside of what Hollywood shovels to us? Tell us now!
— What did YOU think of the long-running television series, Criminal Minds? Tell us now!
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The Hosts of this Program:
Morgan Krumeich
Dr. Morgan Krumeich is a highly respected Clinical Psychologist and Crisis Negotiator, recognized for her expertise in working with first responders and law enforcement professionals. With a strong background in mental health care, she specializes in promoting wellness, resiliency, and effective crisis response among those who routinely face high-stress and traumatic situations.
Based in Pittsburgh, Dr. Krumeich offers a blend of clinical skills and real-world application. She not only provides therapy and interventions, but also delivers training sessions designed to give law enforcement and EMS personnel the practical mental health tools they need to manage the rising tide of mental health calls in their daily work. Her passion for education stretches from teaching resiliency and post-traumatic stress management, to ensuring that professionals have access to resources tailored specifically to the demands of their fields.
Dr. Krumeich is also an experienced member of a local crisis negotiation team, where she directly assists during critical incidents and hostage situations. She brings both a psychological and tactical perspective, bridging the divide between mental health expertise and practical crisis management—a competency that has become increasingly vital as mental health factors become a pronounced component in many police calls.
Beyond her work in the field, Dr. Krumeich is passionate about supporting her colleagues, providing crisis response, and guiding first responders through the aftermath of traumatic events. Her approachable, down-to-earth communication style has made her a sought-after educator, speaker, and collaborator in projects devoted to improving law enforcement mental health and negotiation outcomes.
Through her dedication, Dr. Morgan Krumeich has become an integral resource in advancing the integration of mental health strategies within crisis negotiation, advocating for the well-being of both first responders and the communities they serve.
Pat Doering
Pat Doering began his career as a police officer in 1996 and has served as a Police Hostage Negotiator since 2004. He has received formal negotiation training from the FBI, the London Metropolitan Police (Scotland Yard), and the Negotiation Program at Harvard University. As a graduate of the FBI National Academy (Class 248), Pat continues to provide guidance, formal training, and leadership mentoring worldwide.
In 2024, Pat retired from his law enforcement career but remains dedicated to fostering the next generation of Crisis Negotiators. He conducts live, on-site training events and online workshops designed to sharpen the skills of those interested in crisis negotiation.
“My goal is to share the knowledge and experience I’ve gained throughout my career in high-stakes situations. My speeches will help you become a better communicator and listener. I am committed to teaching and training the future of crisis negotiations.”
— Pat Doering on Facebook
— Pat Doering on LinkedIn
— Pat Doering on Instagram
— Crisis Cop on the Web
— Crisis Cop on YouTube
Mike Wilkerson:
Mike Wilkerson Is the PodFather of St. Louis, and has been hosting, producing, concepting and enhancing podcasts since 2005. As a professional content creator, Mike has been making and documenting every mistake in the Podcasting industry so you won’t have to when you’re ready to begin. With thousands of of hours of business, marketing and life experience behind and in front of the mic and keyboard, he has created a vibrant and always-growing business tapestry via The 2GuysTalking Podcast Network.
As a perpetual student, Mike continues to foster interests in Crisis Negotiator Training, Firearms Instruction and helping people to find the next step in their career with an active interest in hunting light bulb moments.
— Mike Wilkerson on Facebook
— Mike Wilkerson on LinkedIn
— Mike Wilkerson on X
— 2GuysTalking on LinkedIn
